Kansy

How game decides which laser shoots first?

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I have laser car and whenever I do 1v1 with another laser car, we both can destroy car with 1 shot, so the problem is that the one which shoots first wins, making the match kinda unfair.

I want to know how it is determined because fighting with same player gives same result.

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I think you are looking at it backwards (and this applies to ALL weapons, not just lasers).  

When an interval in time is calculated, I think the game calculates the end result for both players individually.  In other words, if both people shot in that interval (have exact same weapons, perhaps)... both people do effectively fire at the same time... always.   Then the game compares the health results of those 2 players.   If the end-result health for both is above the 0, then its shows the results of both and time continues to move forward.   If one person goes below zero... you have a clear winner and you see the results of both. If both people go below zero.... the person whose health goes THE MOST below zero is the loser.  And so you will see the winners shot (but not the losers). 

(seems to match my observations... you can check too)

Edited by xitooner
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I asked customer support this same question and they responded by saying "The player who shoots first is selected randomly." LOL. These people don't even know their own game mechanics. 

From what I can tell, xitooner is correct. The winner is the player who dealt the most damage beyond zero.

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I believe it's due to distance of the laser from the opponent (or position on the vehicle, perhaps).  I don't have data to back it up though.  I just have a feeling I lose laser duels a lot when my laser is positioned at the back of my vehicle, and win them a lot when it's at the front.

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I haven't used lasers in a while anymore so I'm not sure if this info is accurate and I can't check, but I'm not so sure about the 'most below zero thing'. I seem to recall losing from people who had less health and less attack than me. However this could just be because having higher attack doesn't mean doing more damage for lasers, seeing as how the power of a shot is calculated (laser ATK * 2.5 + toolkit bonus).

I also noticed that if my opponent used a backpedal while I did not, he would always lose. And I think that if an opponent was moving towards me while I was standing still, he would always win. So the position of your vehicle does seem to affect who wins.

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On 5/8/2017 at 1:03 AM, SingahTooth said:

I believe it's due to distance of the laser from the opponent (or position on the vehicle, perhaps).  I don't have data to back it up though.  I just have a feeling I lose laser duels a lot when my laser is positioned at the back of my vehicle, and win them a lot when it's at the front.

That is possibly true.

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In my competition, there is this guy with a titan double laser build. I have a double surfer build, and we both have no accessories. I have more health and attack then him, yet he always beats me. So i dont think that its about how much below zero the health it is. (We both one shot each other).

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21 hours ago, Tshark said:

In my competition, there is this guy with a titan double laser build. I have a double surfer build, and we both have no accessories. I have more health and attack then him, yet he always beats me. So i dont think that its about how much below zero the health it is. (We both one shot each other).

I use rockets a lot now and found that with rockets the rule for 'most below zero' seems to be true. So it's probably true for lasers as well. It's just that with lasers you can't know how much damage a single shot does by looking at the DPS. An opponents DPS may for example be 300, but if 200 of that 300 DPS comes from attack boxes, then his shots will only do 450 damage (100*2.5 + 200) rather than 750 (300*2.5).

I assume you used attack boxes on your laser, while your opponent did not (or did so but for less DPS than you), making the damage of his shots higher than yours even though your DPS is higher.

Edited by Adnihil

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I don't know why lasers would be different than rockets.  For rockets it's more obvious because you can see them in flight.  Distance the rocket has to travel to reach the opponent is the deciding factor, since they will fire at the same time.  So factors become:

  1. mount point of the rocket/laser on the chassis
  2. size of the wheels, which determines speed of the vehicle. faster vehicles will move toward the rocket that is being fired at them making it get to them first
  3. boosters / backpedals.  boosters will shorten the time needed for a rocket/laser to hit you.  backpedals will increase the time

Now if everything is 100% identical, then I'm guessing the game has a processing order for damage, and looks at one car at a time.  This is something we can maybe test using facebook friends and identical chassis / weapons.  It's probably easier to do with fresh accounts or immediately after prestige.

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Now if everything is 100% identical, then I'm guessing the game has a processing order for damage, and looks at one car at a time.  This is something we can maybe test using facebook friends and identical chassis / weapons.  It's probably easier to do with fresh accounts or immediately after prestige.

Customer support clarified the discussion I had before -- only if the weapons/chassis are identical, the game randomly selects who shoots first. But I suspect that is a very rare occurrence, because even having 1 different wheel type would make the distances unequal, which would then make the weapons be processed in order of proximity. This is something I would like to see get tested by friends.

Edited by adma
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57 minutes ago, adma said:

Customer support clarified the discussion I had before -- only if the weapons/chassis are identical, the game randomly selects who shoots first. But I suspect that is a very rare occurrence, because even having 1 different wheel type would make the distances unequal, which would then make the weapons be processed in order of proximity. This is something I would like to see get tested by friends.

Will it still is random if you try to fight the same guy or the game already selected one person to shoot first and won't change?

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22 minutes ago, MagnusCarlsen said:

Will it still is random if you try to fight the same guy or the game already selected one person to shoot first and won't change?

This is something that needs to be tested. I have never faced someone with identical builds. Similar, but not identical.

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Yeah I've never seen identical builds(identical in both the exact positions of weapons, as well as stats). However, for slightly differing builds, I know this:

First priority: whichever player has more health will shoot first Second priority: Whichever weapon has higher grade will shoot first(better star level, or just higher grade, i.e. 1 star military is higher grade than 5 star metal.) Third Priority: here is the mystery-if both players have identical builds, which laser will take priority.

Sorry  I couldn't answer the question but hopefully I gave a little insight on how lasers work

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Health has nothing to do with it. Here, I have less HP and DPS, and somehow still won:
AxMzxgn.gif

 

This one is a real challenge. It pretty much debunks the proximity theory (his front laser is a lot closer than mine) and the damage overload theory (his laser would have sent my HP way beyond zero).
O3vdFI3.gif

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Interesting! Maybe the winner isn't who overkills his opponent the most, but who does the most damage with the fatal shot.

You did about 55% damage with one shot, while he did 95% damage with both shots. This suggests that individually his lasers do about 47,5% damage each. We know that the game calculates the damage for each weapon separately, so maybe with the last shot it saw that your damage was higher so you won (and only after it looked at the damage for his first laser would it have looked at the damage for his second laser).

I'll try out some things and post my findings later.

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17 hours ago, NewDawn said:

Yeah I've never seen identical builds(identical in both the exact positions of weapons, as well as stats). However, for slightly differing builds, I know this:

First priority: whichever player has more health will shoot first Second priority: Whichever weapon has higher grade will shoot first(better star level, or just higher grade, i.e. 1 star military is higher grade than 5 star metal.) Third Priority: here is the mystery-if both players have identical builds, which laser will take priority.

Sorry  I couldn't answer the question but hopefully I gave a little insight on how lasers work

Then I guess first priority is amount of stars, second priority is health. This makes sense because higher grade lasers do shoot faster than lower grade ones.

Proximity will never matter because they are both ranged weapons firing simultaneously, so they reach their destination at the same time.

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15 minutes ago, NewDawn said:

This makes sense because higher grade lasers do shoot faster than lower grade ones.

No, they don't?

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3 hours ago, NewDawn said:

Then I guess first priority is amount of stars, second priority is health. This makes sense because higher grade lasers do shoot faster than lower grade ones.

Proximity will never matter because they are both ranged weapons firing simultaneously, so they reach their destination at the same time.

Lol where do you get your info from?

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On 02/05/2017 at 5:16 PM, adma said:

I asked customer support this same question and they responded by saying "The player who shoots first is selected randomly." LOL. These people don't even know their own game mechanics. 

From what I can tell, xitooner is correct. The winner is the player who dealt the most damage beyond zero.

Yeah definitely not random. 

Proof: fight the same person 20 times in a row, always same winner, make small changes vehicle, now you win. Idk why

Edited by ThreeLetters
Correcting mistake

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3 hours ago, ThreeLetters said:

Yeah definitely not random. 

Proof: fight the same person 20 times in a row, always same winner, make small changes vehicle, now you win. Idk why

Well, the 20 times in a row one I can understand.... games are always "pseudorandom" (ie based on a random number seed).  Given the same starting seed it will always generate the same "random" numbers ... which means it can be random from opponent to opponent yet still give consistent results as long as the opponent/build does not change,.

But even a small change in build can affect how it reacts in battle from a physics perspective... and perhaps all the properties of all items in your build also affect your calculated seed as well.

adma's videos above have thrown me for a loop; we might never quite figure this out without a devs help. :D

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, xitooner said:

Well, the 20 times in a row one I can understand.... games are always "pseudorandom" (ie based on a random number seed).  Given the same starting seed it will always generate the same "random" numbers ... which means it can be random from opponent to opponent yet still give consistent results as long as the opponent/build does not change,.

But even a small change in build can affect how it reacts in battle from a physics perspective... and perhaps all the properties of all items in your build also affect your calculated seed as well.

adma's videos above have thrown me for a loop; we might never quite figure this out without a devs help. :D

No I think you might be onto something with the seeds. Saying it's "random" is deceiving. Like you said, it's probably pseudo-random. If they generate a seed/hash based on a certain configuration, that would explain why you get identical results facing the same opponent multiple times. I'll try to test that theory. 

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Its very simple both lasers shoot exactly same time the difference is where u placed it. The one wich is closer to the oponent will hit first. Same with rockets and double rockets. Simple math ;)

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